We have seen a number of times how the wills and wishes of a few in societies can incite ordinary people. But once again we have fallen prey to them. We are unable to identify those who want to direct innocent people for their own political and strategic motives. Do we yet need to reach that maturity level where we can see through the infernal designs? Where we can hear the voice from with in? Where we can give precedence to our own and our nation’s good? Where we can banish the malice thoughts and ideology?
I have been watching both Pakistani and Indian media a lot and I was wondering who is behind all the fuss that media is creating. I noticed that there is a fraction of society which is behind everything. I heard “Bharat Varma” from “Indian Defence Journal” on “Mere Mutabiq”, a talk show on Geo News. He spoke unabashedly about the current situation between both countries and went to the extent of saying that Pakistan needs India’s support to neutralize its internal security. What did he mean by that? It is quite understandable to even a person who is not much indulged in to political intricacies. Then there is ARY One world, which is telecasting a video footage of snippets of interviews of people of Pakistan, willing and vowing to go to war. Of course it comprised of the selected interviews. People of both the countries do not want conflicts. They want peace. They want prosperity. More recently, Star News showed a video which showed “Rehman Chacha” gunning and aiming and making plans to terrorize people at large. It looked more like a Bollywood thriller than any real terrorist unveiling footage. To me it was even funny. Star News has mocked itself very badly with the accompanied lights and the sound affects.
I am not here for advocating one and abusing the other government but for the clarity of the clouded and muddled minds of people, I want to ask a few questions:
How can the security of such a reputed hotel like Taj Mahal be surpassed so that the terrorists can gather around so much of the explosive material that lasted for three god damned days?
Indian security agencies and government have confessed that there were no intelligence reports regarding this terrorist activity. That means that they are not professionally very good in their field as there was an attack. Then how come they investigated so quickly and then declared after very few hours of the incident that sources of attacks were from Pakistan?
The Pakistani group who they blame for the attacks is more or less like Al-Qaeda. They are highly trained and banned in Pakistan. Even American CIA along with world’s most renowned intelligence agencies is unable to track Osama. Then how come Indian intelligence agencies become soquick to announce the roots of terrorists?
Let’s suppose that the terrorists succeeded in dumping that much of ammunition inside the hotel rooms. This means that they were quite smart chaps. So, were they so dumb on the other side that they left the wrappers of sweets in their pockets, which carry the name of Pakistani sweet manufacturer? And made phone calls from their cells to someone in Pakistan?
First the terrorists pronounced that they were from Deccan and then when they saw that it’s not helping Indian government to spit poison against Pakistan, they made a call again to media, rephrased and said that they forgot to tell last time that they were actually from Pakistan?
India suffered a major terrorism act which cost it lots of innocent lives and an environment of terror has developed among people. Indian Congress has lost more popularity. Pakistan has suffered too, diplomatically in the eyes of world. Then who is the benefiter of this whole bloody episode? Indian general elections are on the hand. Doesn’t it echo like BJP?
Lastly, Pakistan has already been suffering from so many of internal problems vis-à-vis a strangling economy, a feeble newly hatched government, so many little-made-huge crisis like shortage of wheat, sugar, and electricity. Above all it has been at war with internal terrorist entities for more than one and half year now. How can a country like that dare to venture a new hostile front?
To put it in simple words; the possibilities of involvement of some Pakistani terrorists can not be negated at all but there can be no involvement of Government of Pakistan or its any of intelligence agencies, so to say. Pakistan can simply not afford it. Since an incident has happened and Indian government has failed yet to find any clue to the actual roots of the terrorist activity in Mumbai, she thought it easy and better to blame Pakistan for everything (no matter the facts negate the hypothesis). The idea of alerting its armed forces was to play the pressure tactics on Pakistan as well as to divert the attention of the people of India from the graver condition of security in the country. But still it’s the people who should decide where the course of upcoming history should be taken to? And people do not want war. They want peace for they know that 24% and 24.3% (2007 est.) of population of Pakistan and India respectively, lies under the line of poverty, what to talk about the rest of issues like health, education, and unemployment? We need to work jointly on all our problems including terrorism.
God bless everyone, for He sees no boundaries. Amen.
Afaque as an Indian, who has lost one friend at Taj in this attack I can only mourn, and say I hate terror and I hate ineffectual politicians both Indian and Pakistani
Oh I am sorry and sorry for all those who have been vicitms... God put them in heaven... and these politicians be moralized a lil by Him Who watches over everything...
Hi Afaque first of all i usually don't talk to frens across border on topic like this so that it does not spoil the relation , still i feel we can handle this issue matured manner .
About your points :
Point no 1 : About breaching the security of Taj hotel. Till this incident in India there is not much security aspect in 5 star hotels . From now on the measures obviously would be different. No one anticipated such an attack.
Point 2 : Its wrong to say that ter was no prior warnings. Unfortunately there had been lots of advance warnings from various quarters about the impending attack and badly our system has to be severely revamped that they didnt pursue the forewarnings in a proper manner. The trail of investigations tat started right from the sea where some fishermen wer killed and the captain made to steer the ship to coast and finally killed by slittign his throat and the conversation the terrorist had using the sat phone to karachi made the accusation of relating tem to pakistan.
Point 3 : AlQaeda , Let , JeM are all faces of terrorism. They have varios names for same ideology of hatred and terror. LeT , JeM has a track record of abetting violence in India.
Point 4 : I hope you are aware of the basic lessons of investigation. Every criminal leaves a trail of remains and facts.
Point 5 : The names Indian Mujajideen , Deccam mujahideen are just an eyewash. The name of pakistan was given by terrosist who was caught alive.
Point 6 : Ofcourse i blame our politicans who are insensitive to the menace of terrorism and try to see vote politics in terror politics. I don't blame Zardari govt either or Pakistan as a whole . But again i would say , there are some rouge elements in Pakistan establishments like Army and ISI who breeds hatred towards India and radicalised elements.
Point 7 : Yes Pakistan also suffers. It is suffering now for the monster it created to indulge on Indian Kashmir , Its suffering from the monster it unleashed in Afghanistan to counter Russia in support of US tat time . Ter are still fringe but powerful supporters of the groups in Pakistan army and ISI. The democracy in Pakistan yet has to set roots . The politicians yet to assert themselves over the certain elements of army and ISI. I honestly feel Zardari may be good in his intention but behind him is the weight of Pakistan Army and ISI which may tie his hands and words and action.
hi, "R." (as I remember from an earlier comment of yours) first of all thank you so much for giving an analysis of my post and to say so openly whatever you wanted to say... :)
I said in my post that I am not negating the presence of some elements of certain Pakistani groups in the incident BUT: 1. To modulate the decisions right after 5/6 hours of the incident was not right thing to do. Even the trails left by the criminal can never be so evident to notice them at once. 2. Even ISI should not be accused as it is an org which works for betterment of Pakistan, and having said so, ISI will never want Pakistan to belittled by a neighboring country and by the rest of the world at large.
In the end like I said earlier as well. Its people who are the state and who are the nation, and they want peace and prosperity. With actions like blaming each other, we can never attain that environment where we can find solutions of collateral issues. ISI, Pak Army and Pakistani Governments have been fighting against war on terror since long now. Our soldiers have been killed by bloody terrorists, our hundreds of innocent people have been killed in the urban areas and hence can never support terrorists like the one in Mumbai. I hope I justified at least to some extent... :)
afaque I think people like u and me both sides want only peace but the politicians both sides are &*%* (sorry to use such language but :()
I can agree with the point that pak govt has probably nothing to do with it NOW and pak is suffering too but then wasnt pak the one who was encouraging the terrorism sometime back and now its fallen trap to it too, its lost the control on it... else why would have Marroit tradegy happened?
I am sure u would have heard it on ur TV but tell me is the way the leaders behave and its not just there its the same story this side too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eij5o7XizIA
what we need both sides is better strong leaders who can come together and take stand against terrorism
There is no point blaming each other. The fact is that when such horrible incidence takes place, it is the proof that somewhere the whole system is faulty. It's not just because of political leaders or security at Taj. The reason behind this incidence is failure of many small systems in India leading to tha main system collapsing. Like when those terrorists came from porbandar to mumbai our coastguards failed to stop them or rather were unaware of them.Some fishermen informed the police that them saw some young boys with bags, but police neglected their information. Then ATS was busy in sadvi Pragya's case, so may be that could be one of the many reasons behind it. There are many reasons, many. Talking about this all is very easy but we need to take steps. Whole world needs to wake up and we all need to geared ourselves against terrorism. Now it's a high time.
"Monika" it is a long debate for why Pakistan government had encouraged "who"... but shortly,
1. They were not terrorists at THAT time... they were freedom fighters who were fighting against Soviet Russian brutal forces in Afghanistan... 2. They were not just supported by Pakistan but they were backed by US of A as well... who is Osama? youtube is piling up with videos showing Osama in American states talking business deals and meeting officials back in 80s and 90s... 3. Fine US and Pakistan has backed them in Afghanistan, primarily for their own interests (as otherwise Russia would continue to promulgate) BUT once that episode was over, US should have helped Pakistan in removing those groups peacefully instead of bombing them ferociously.
In the end we DEFINITELY need better leaders... Thanks for your comment... :)
"Avanti", how balanced and factual your approach you have. I wish everyone should think the way you think. Yes, We all ought to join hands against terrorism...
well said Afaque and if you let me to grasp attention of your friends, I have something to say them, who lost whom? is there anybody who knows better than us? what relations you are scared of being spoiled? and Afaque! heaven is just for Muslims ;) also Welcome to my blog :)
"DuFFeR"... thanks for stopping by... n yes you have all the attention... as I said its strongly needed to clear the muddled minds of people - on both sides of the boundaries :)
People like you, me, we all want peace. Just somewhere amongst us 'humans', some impressionable minds were wrongly influenced. And they end up causing havoc. And then starts the fire of revenge, which worsens the situation. Tit for tat. What's their point?
There are FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE (at all levels) involved. Its outrageously hideous, what is happening. Its like humans have found another way of killing/dying. As if running over by a car wasn't enough, I now gotta watch out for flying bullets too.
I don't see how anyone (politicians, agencies, media) could prevent this. The root of it lies in some very strangely convoluted twisted minds, how do you correct that? Its tougher than talking to a wall.
(I think blogger ate my previous comment, bad blogger).
It's too sad, innocent ppl became the victims. Am praying oneday this world will find peace with each other, no more hatred and only a peaceful world to live in.
"Snnow", you are right at points. But politicians and media does have very important part to play as they are the one who can unveil the very causes and groups in the society which are involved in terrorist activities... till now they have done nothing but to play the blame game which has only lead the chaos to cumulate...
it just makes me smile.. all these posts on terrorism.. some about indians cursing pakis and then pakis cursing indians.. and then there are many where ppl are just tired of their own country and it's politicians.. ask any "common man" in india or pakistan and 99.9% of them will be against war.. i have nothing against pakistanis.. why the fuck should one blame an entire nation for some stupid fucks.. isn't it like the hindus blaming islam for terror.. how is it different.. some 10 maniacs DO NOT define the state of the entire community or country.. i don't get it.. all so-called educated men hate these politicians... and yet we fall for their words.. who knows what the reality is.. we only know what is being projected to us.. did some terrorist from pak come n do some damage... or was this internal... who knows.. media will hype everything.. thats how they get their pockets filled.. for gods sake.. everyone knows media is itself politically driven.. it's known for ages now.. why don't ppl wake up.. internal wars.. pakis are themselves fighting their own internal problems and for gods sake... if some indian says that india is a safe nation.. i'd die laughing.. no one knows when one stupid mofucking minister will rise and start a war against another community.. and there will be mayhem all over.. is this fuckin safety? god... it's all chaos everywhere and who suffers the most.. not the politician.. not their family.. not their dogs.. it's ppl like me n you.. cz hell we all know the fear that has filled our lives.. we get on a fuckin local train and we call our homes when we reach our destinations saying.. yeah mom.. i am alive.. never knew a day will come when eating at a posh restaurant will be called taking a risk! sheesh! mindlessness! from what i can see.. pakistanis as well as indians.. are all suffering from internal wars more than external ones.. in fact.. i doubt if external wars have even caused us any damage at all.. our politicians are just fucking up our lives.. give us our truth.. give us our faith!
Aah! "Mr. Pink Floyd" Nice to see you back after a looong time... where were you lost?
about your comment-cum-article.... :D well that was what my point in writing this article... i think its the time for us to quell the wrong elements of society including the politicians and media... we need NOT to be driven by few...
Look, i cannot agree that the ISI cannot afford to be behind this attack. I am not saying that it was, i m only saying that we cannot guarantee that it was not.
What the perpetrator of this incident did not, perhaps, factor in, was the amazing public outcry and ongoing anger. Never before has Indian publiuc reacted this way. Not after the 1993 blasts, not after the Delhi blasts, NOT ever. This reaction is suprprising, even to the stray observer. because all the previous times, the common man was hurt, and the common man was not aroused. This time, the five stars were the main target, but the common man reacted big time. You do not factor in that surprise element. When you now go back to the planning stage, it all looks fine and very do-able.
The BJP does NOT stand to gain from this. All they needed to do was to create artificial increase in prices around election time. That trick has worked for them long enough. Every single time.
And the Congress can lose on the merit of its own inefficiency. It really need no help in that department.
"Jagdesh", I agree with you. I am not ruling out any probabilities. But the action of accusation took too little time to be taken. Had it be after may be 2 days or so then may Pakistan was obliged to do something. Even then there must be some proofs. You see our President has received a threatening call from Indian Foreign Minister. But I ask if he has really received, it must be recorded then WHY DONT THEY PLAY IT ON MEDIA? That even makes us question that its just a part of propaganda. So we got to question them all, damn politicians.
i have an answer to that "how do we know".. you never saw a public outcry like this before cz the shit that happened right now has affected ppl like Tata.. they attacked at wrong places.. Taj and Trident.. these are the places where high end meets take place... common man doesn't visit these places.. we only see them from outside.. these are the places frequented by bigwigs of business world.. politicians thrive upon these ppl.. these are the ppl politicians have failed to protect this time.. hence this outcry.. hence, even after 7 days we are still seeing that the city hasn't forgotten and it's still angry.. the business world is angry.. they want new politicians to support them.. hence they are shouting.. and bcz big ppl are shouting alongwith the common man.. the shouts are loud and clear this time.. chew on this
I'm not adept at answering questions on national security or international politics. But from my experiences while travelling to different parts of the world tell me that no matter how big a hotel, the security measures for guests are not made keeping in mind that terrorists will be checking in.
To answer your question No.1 - I am yet to come across a hotel in any part of the world that checks the luggage of its guests before allowing them to check into the hotel. Of course, after this incident, people will be doing that, I guess.
As far as your doubts regarding the nationality of these terrorists goes, what do you have to say about a report in Pakistani media about Kasab's father owning up to the fact that it is his son in fact whose pictures have been splashed as the face or terror? Also, Kasab (the terrorist who was arrested for the Mumbai attacks) has written a letter to the Pak High Commission in India asking them to provide him with legal aid to fight his case. Is that fabricated too?
I agree, the Pak govt may not have orchestrated these attacks, but if they allow terror outfits to thrive in their country, they will have to take the flak that comes not just from India but from the entire world. You do know that the terrorist who was released from an Indian jail in return for the lives of the passengers on board IC 814 which was hijacked is still living in Pakistan, as owned by the Pak govt itself?
No one wants war, Afaque. But we want justice. Neither innocent Indians nor innocent Pakis should be killed. But the perpetrators of crime should be brought to book.
"D" When the post was written nothing was clear at all. Certain clues have come up only when media and some other bodies investigated in. Indian government did not tell ANY of the proofs to Pak government.
My point of writing the article was to condemn the blame game when nothing was clear, or if it WERE clear then nothing was shared with Pakistan government, and instead the Indian government alerted its forces on the borders and continued a media war threatening and bullying Pakistani government and blamed it to be the cause of all the bloody scene in Mumbai.
You tell me was it a wise way to settle the issue?
Wasn't it better to talk to Pakistani government?
Is it right for us to be played by bloody terrorist and bring the peace process to once again a ZERO position?
India still have not provided ANY proofs or even any clues to government this side. It is Pakistani government which is raiding and capturing certain Jihadi groups which India has JUST indicated. You can imagine what action it would have taken, had Indian government given some concrete proof to Pakis.
War is never a solution to any thing, this we have seen in past.
Afaque, let's not be naive and argue about whether our govt has given any "proofs" to the Pak govt or not. Because there is simply no way you or I can validate our points. You have only what you hear in the media to go by and I have only what I hear in the media to go by too.
The points that I have made are only about Kasab's origin. Can you deny a father's claim on his son? Why would Dawn (the paper that carried an interview of Kasab's father) do that?
And at the end of the day, it is important to focus on getting the guilty to the book instead of being tangled in petty politics.
Thats what I said that the things are getting clearer only now. And now Pakistani government IS taking action against those elements. They have to do that because terrorists are no one's friends, neither India nor Pakistan. I can feel the pain that Indian people must have been feeling coz I have witnessed with my own eyes the same blood and mutilated bodies in my city.
But I only intended to stop the blame game and the pronouncements of going to war. It was a matter which could have been solved in a peaceful way. When the Paki government WAS ready to help out and assist and co-operate in any kind of investigation then there was no response at all from across the border.
Its not about politics, its about the 170 million people of Pakistan and 1.13 billion people of India. When its war then tanks and missiles don't see the poor civilians and ordinary citizens. I am an ordinary man and I have spoken for my kind and we do condemn war.
hello afaque, hmm, its wierd and interesting to read of what the common man is saying accross the border. unfortunately, your post feels predictably pro-pakistan and anti-india with regard to the aftermath of 26/11. its also riddled with mis-information and half-backed facts, afaque. alas! u would probably say the same to a similar post written by an indian. such is the state of emotions of individuals on both sides, i suppose. i think its would be safe to say that, the political leadership in both the countries is sadly lacking. we've failed in our preceeding intelligence, and paki govt has failed too, for obviously it is unable to eradicate extremist terrorists and their stronghold on its land. to the extent that its not even aware of what's brewing under its very nose. same goes for us. in the bargain innocents have died. hope God gives us all strength and mental capacity to fight against every element that's threatening humanity.
Afaque, i read ur post n comments by ur blogger friends...very interesting to know that there is a mature society who has courage to discuss on such sensitive issues......hmmm..all i would say is that these terror attacks are not piece of entertainment for any of the nation....blaming politicians and media does not reflect strength but yes i believe that if anything can be done is from the courage and new outlook of the commom men of both the nations.....if we are sureabout our ideology and stand as a mass community against such inhuman activities then these small fry can not harm us......n peace will certainly prevail.
if only people would find easy outlets to their chaos within will everything at all see the light of peace and serenity.
what has been and what could be is just malice. now is same as it was 20 years ago, or even 50, maybe worsened because 'it is worked upon to be made better for the worse' but then again, do we ever work to make anything better? we have stopped being humans. we are just a bunch from a wandering crowd.. all going astray!
"Free Fallin'" Yes it seems a lil pro-Pakistani coz I thought to some extent to clarify the position of Pakistan at that time. But it wasn't anit-Indian. It might be anti-Indian Media and anti-Paki Media.
My intent was to point out certain issues which Media had been abashing about.
Yes when this was written, the things were not clear that much. And I did not forced my views upon the public. I intended to criticize the way this issue had been taken by few on both sides. On Indian part, they were blaming on Paki govt directly right after a few hours of the tragedy and later vowed to wage a war on Pakistan. And on Paki side, they were showing the videos (which represented a fraction of society) about accepting the war so bravely. This is not bravery.
A proper action would have been a dialogue and information exchange.
"Dr. Vasu" Of course we need to talk on such issues. But I am afraid that due to mis-information and deliberate propaganda on media on both sides has incited the general public so much that people who were friends before this tragedy, have become enemies. This has even happened on this very blogosphere.
There will always be difference in opinion and ideologies BUT we must talk like educated and enlightened human beings, just in order to solve our differences.
I am glad that you have found certain maturity and positivity in my writing and my friends here.
"Seher" Yes all the 'what-ifs' are useless now. After the after effects of Mumbai tragedy, it is very depressing for those who have been working for bringing the people closer than before. We are standing again where we had started many years before.
Well, good to see someone who mentioned Mr Verma's attitude too....i also wrote a post as a reply to his baseless article...wud luv to hv a response frm u...
i wish the politicians and so called leadership of both the countries will return back to sanity once more...
link to the post http://eishalslife.blogspot.com/2008/12/mr-bharat-vermas-misconceptions.html
hey afaque, hmm, i understand u wrote your post in question earlier than the facts actually came out. even i've posted stuff in the aftermath of mumbai-blasts....more to do with our internal reactions than commenting on indo-pak relations. it was utter amazement at what was unfolding after those fateful days....i could'nt actually get down on commenting on our relations! anyway, its a subject that's been trampled on by many, and no one really knows what in the freakin' hell are the govts. planning on doing.
i'm absolutely certain there are people exactly like us in pakistan too, who are urban, educated global citizens with sensitive minds. after all, weren't these two nations one before 1947? we have the same blood sired by the same land, afaque.
i think its high time the pressing issues between our countries get sorted through a serious dialogue. i'm referring to kashmir. only then will we see peace in our lifetimes. unfortunately all our polititions do is skirt the main issues. terrorist camps within pakistan certainly don't help.
I am glad I was finally able to explain what I wanted to... :)
yes it is the agenda of politicians only... werna people dont want all the bullshit... and for me if there is some linkage to terrorist on pakistani land who manipulated mumbai...that was only to divert pakistan's attention towards the terrorist camps in north-west... as the govt here has been too stringent on them since long now even though we wasted countless fauji and civilian innocent people while fighting against terrorists...
hmm, half-baked facts i understand that you've written this way before investigation was started but i suppose after the initial clues.
1. big hotels lacked the security equipment, i believe they realized now! even if they haven't by now... hmm
2. Indian security agencies had information about the attacks but improper communication between agencies cost us dearly.
3. world knows that LeT, JeM operate under various names and alqaida is responsible for spreading terrorism in pakistan!
4. it was based on the clues they found with the arrested terrorist from pakistan, kasab.
6. unfortunately for you, BJP hasn't gained much contrasting to what majority thought, its no more hindutva elections in India dude!
7. world knows pakistan is the epi-center for terrorism. US too knows that and we can sense the urgency in recent developments. pakistan govt. should know why it is so concerned about kashmir considering the wheat,sugar shortages which you've stated. is it more interested to work for its people or whether it should concentrate on kashmir.
and coming to your president Mr. Zardari, he changes his words twice before i can complete a post on my blog. recent flip-flops on his own decisions raises serious doubts about who's running the show in pakistan.
Star news has lost credibility ages ago and you're still watching it!
your post is anti-india and pro-pakistan. your post has failed to mention the terrorist activities in pakistan. there is literally no point in me arguing on this. i came across your post so i replied. nobody wants war. but its the way pakistan reacts depends on the outcome.
"Dolphin" Already has said much about this issues here... Pakistani govt IS doing too much against the terrorism even inside the country. If you just google the statistics and come to know how much of their are strikes and killing of terrorists and our own martyr soldiers and civilians then you wont comment that Pakistani govt must do something... You could have USED the word "MORE"... coz yes more is needed to be done but negating the total efforts is too callus...
And yes the post had been written when the things were not clear yet but it was an answer to Congress's baseless allegations which too were deliberated when the things were unclear...
hmm, afaque, i weigh your view that pakistan govt. is doing so much against terrorists. but sadly, great results matter at the end of the day. what all we've seen is too much promise and little deliverance & i'm not denying that indian govt. failed miserably in preventing the attacks when with prior information. it is high time our govts deliver results. nice post, interesting to observe what people on your side think.
"Dolphin" Pakistani govt might not be delivering much but what about Indian govt? Interpol is a neutral and international agency and just yesterday they said that they haven't been given any clues and any proofs which are necessary for cracking down the claimed terrorists... So I guess nobody's doing much there as well...
"Dolphin" Pakistani govt might not be delivering much but what about Indian govt? Interpol is a neutral and international agency and just yesterday they said that they haven't been given any clues and any proofs which are necessary for cracking down the claimed terrorists... So I guess nobody's doing much there as well...
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47 comments:
Afaque as an Indian, who has lost one friend at Taj in this attack I can only mourn, and say I hate terror and I hate ineffectual politicians both Indian and Pakistani
Oh I am sorry and sorry for all those who have been vicitms... God put them in heaven...
and these politicians be moralized a lil by Him Who watches over everything...
Hi Afaque first of all i usually don't talk to frens across border on topic like this so that it does not spoil the relation , still i feel we can handle this issue matured manner .
About your points :
Point no 1 : About breaching the security of Taj hotel. Till this incident in India there is not much security aspect in 5 star hotels . From now on the measures obviously would be different. No one anticipated such an attack.
Point 2 : Its wrong to say that ter was no prior warnings. Unfortunately there had been lots of advance warnings from various quarters about the impending attack and badly our system has to be severely revamped that they didnt pursue the forewarnings in a proper manner. The trail of investigations tat started right from the sea where some fishermen wer killed and the captain made to steer the ship to coast and finally killed by slittign his throat and the conversation the terrorist had using the sat phone to karachi made the accusation of relating tem to pakistan.
Point 3 : AlQaeda , Let , JeM are all faces of terrorism. They have varios names for same ideology of hatred and terror. LeT , JeM has a track record of abetting violence in India.
Point 4 : I hope you are aware of the basic lessons of investigation. Every criminal leaves a trail of remains and facts.
Point 5 : The names Indian Mujajideen , Deccam mujahideen are just an eyewash. The name of pakistan was given by terrosist who was caught alive.
Point 6 : Ofcourse i blame our politicans who are insensitive to the menace of terrorism and try to see vote politics in terror politics. I don't blame Zardari govt either or Pakistan as a whole . But again i would say , there are some rouge elements in Pakistan establishments like Army and ISI who breeds hatred towards India and radicalised elements.
Point 7 : Yes Pakistan also suffers. It is suffering now for the monster it created to indulge on Indian Kashmir , Its suffering from the monster it unleashed in Afghanistan to counter Russia in support of US tat time . Ter are still fringe but powerful supporters of the groups in Pakistan army and ISI. The democracy in Pakistan yet has to set roots . The politicians yet to assert themselves over the certain elements of army and ISI. I honestly feel Zardari may be good in his intention but behind him is the weight of Pakistan Army and ISI which may tie his hands and words and action.
hi, "R." (as I remember from an earlier comment of yours)
first of all thank you so much for giving an analysis of my post and to say so openly whatever you wanted to say... :)
I said in my post that I am not negating the presence of some elements of certain Pakistani groups in the incident BUT:
1. To modulate the decisions right after 5/6 hours of the incident was not right thing to do. Even the trails left by the criminal can never be so evident to notice them at once.
2. Even ISI should not be accused as it is an org which works for betterment of Pakistan, and having said so, ISI will never want Pakistan to belittled by a neighboring country and by the rest of the world at large.
In the end like I said earlier as well. Its people who are the state and who are the nation, and they want peace and prosperity. With actions like blaming each other, we can never attain that environment where we can find solutions of collateral issues.
ISI, Pak Army and Pakistani Governments have been fighting against war on terror since long now. Our soldiers have been killed by bloody terrorists, our hundreds of innocent people have been killed in the urban areas and hence can never support terrorists like the one in Mumbai.
I hope I justified at least to some extent... :)
afaque I think people like u and me both sides want only peace but the politicians both sides are &*%* (sorry to use such language but :()
I can agree with the point that pak govt has probably nothing to do with it NOW and pak is suffering too but then wasnt pak the one who was encouraging the terrorism sometime back and now its fallen trap to it too, its lost the control on it... else why would have Marroit tradegy happened?
I am sure u would have heard it on ur TV but tell me is the way the leaders behave and its not just there its the same story this side too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eij5o7XizIA
what we need both sides is better strong leaders who can come together and take stand against terrorism
There is no point blaming each other. The fact is that when such horrible incidence takes place, it is the proof that somewhere the whole system is faulty. It's not just because of political leaders or security at Taj. The reason behind this incidence is failure of many small systems in India leading to tha main system collapsing. Like when those terrorists came from porbandar to mumbai our coastguards failed to stop them or rather were unaware of them.Some fishermen informed the police that them saw some young boys with bags, but police neglected their information. Then ATS was busy in sadvi Pragya's case, so may be that could be one of the many reasons behind it. There are many reasons, many.
Talking about this all is very easy but we need to take steps. Whole world needs to wake up and we all need to geared ourselves against terrorism. Now it's a high time.
"Monika" it is a long debate for why Pakistan government had encouraged "who"... but shortly,
1. They were not terrorists at THAT time... they were freedom fighters who were fighting against Soviet Russian brutal forces in Afghanistan...
2. They were not just supported by Pakistan but they were backed by US of A as well... who is Osama? youtube is piling up with videos showing Osama in American states talking business deals and meeting officials back in 80s and 90s...
3. Fine US and Pakistan has backed them in Afghanistan, primarily for their own interests (as otherwise Russia would continue to promulgate) BUT once that episode was over, US should have helped Pakistan in removing those groups peacefully instead of bombing them ferociously.
In the end we DEFINITELY need better leaders...
Thanks for your comment... :)
"Avanti", how balanced and factual your approach you have. I wish everyone should think the way you think.
Yes, We all ought to join hands against terrorism...
Ya, and at the same time we are ready for it. Nice post.
well said Afaque
and if you let me to grasp attention of your friends, I have something to say them,
who lost whom? is there anybody who knows better than us?
what relations you are scared of being spoiled?
and Afaque! heaven is just for Muslims ;)
also
Welcome to my blog :)
"DuFFeR"... thanks for stopping by...
n yes you have all the attention... as I said its strongly needed to clear the muddled minds of people - on both sides of the boundaries :)
People like you, me, we all want peace. Just somewhere amongst us 'humans', some impressionable minds were wrongly influenced. And they end up causing havoc. And then starts the fire of revenge, which worsens the situation. Tit for tat. What's their point?
There are FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE (at all levels) involved. Its outrageously hideous, what is happening. Its like humans have found another way of killing/dying. As if running over by a car wasn't enough, I now gotta watch out for flying bullets too.
I don't see how anyone (politicians, agencies, media) could prevent this. The root of it lies in some very strangely convoluted twisted minds, how do you correct that? Its tougher than talking to a wall.
(I think blogger ate my previous comment, bad blogger).
It's too sad, innocent ppl became the victims. Am praying oneday this world will find peace with each other, no more hatred and only a peaceful world to live in.
"Snnow", you are right at points.
But politicians and media does have very important part to play as they are the one who can unveil the very causes and groups in the society which are involved in terrorist activities... till now they have done nothing but to play the blame game which has only lead the chaos to cumulate...
"Carolyn"... I wish your prayers may come true...
Good show!!
I recently started a blog of mine. I would love it if you would add me to your blog roll and vice verse. http://luscious69.blogs
Thanks Luscious...
sure will do :)
If only peace was an everyday thing. Nice post.
it just makes me smile.. all these posts on terrorism.. some about indians cursing pakis and then pakis cursing indians.. and then there are many where ppl are just tired of their own country and it's politicians.. ask any "common man" in india or pakistan and 99.9% of them will be against war.. i have nothing against pakistanis.. why the fuck should one blame an entire nation for some stupid fucks.. isn't it like the hindus blaming islam for terror.. how is it different.. some 10 maniacs DO NOT define the state of the entire community or country.. i don't get it.. all so-called educated men hate these politicians... and yet we fall for their words.. who knows what the reality is.. we only know what is being projected to us.. did some terrorist from pak come n do some damage... or was this internal... who knows.. media will hype everything.. thats how they get their pockets filled.. for gods sake.. everyone knows media is itself politically driven.. it's known for ages now.. why don't ppl wake up.. internal wars.. pakis are themselves fighting their own internal problems and for gods sake... if some indian says that india is a safe nation.. i'd die laughing.. no one knows when one stupid mofucking minister will rise and start a war against another community.. and there will be mayhem all over.. is this fuckin safety? god... it's all chaos everywhere and who suffers the most.. not the politician.. not their family.. not their dogs.. it's ppl like me n you.. cz hell we all know the fear that has filled our lives.. we get on a fuckin local train and we call our homes when we reach our destinations saying.. yeah mom.. i am alive.. never knew a day will come when eating at a posh restaurant will be called taking a risk! sheesh! mindlessness! from what i can see.. pakistanis as well as indians.. are all suffering from internal wars more than external ones.. in fact.. i doubt if external wars have even caused us any damage at all.. our politicians are just fucking up our lives.. give us our truth.. give us our faith!
Aah! "Mr. Pink Floyd"
Nice to see you back after a looong time... where were you lost?
about your comment-cum-article.... :D
well that was what my point in writing this article... i think its the time for us to quell the wrong elements of society including the politicians and media... we need NOT to be driven by few...
i was busy quitting jobs and abusing my bosses :P
lolz...
good to hear that, I am too good in that also... :p
Look, i cannot agree that the ISI cannot afford to be behind this attack. I am not saying that it was, i m only saying that we cannot guarantee that it was not.
What the perpetrator of this incident did not, perhaps, factor in, was the amazing public outcry and ongoing anger. Never before has Indian publiuc reacted this way. Not after the 1993 blasts, not after the Delhi blasts, NOT ever. This reaction is suprprising, even to the stray observer. because all the previous times, the common man was hurt, and the common man was not aroused. This time, the five stars were the main target, but the common man reacted big time. You do not factor in that surprise element. When you now go back to the planning stage, it all looks fine and very do-able.
The BJP does NOT stand to gain from this. All they needed to do was to create artificial increase in prices around election time. That trick has worked for them long enough. Every single time.
And the Congress can lose on the merit of its own inefficiency. It really need no help in that department.
"Jagdesh",
I agree with you. I am not ruling out any probabilities. But the action of accusation took too little time to be taken. Had it be after may be 2 days or so then may Pakistan was obliged to do something. Even then there must be some proofs. You see our President has received a threatening call from Indian Foreign Minister. But I ask if he has really received, it must be recorded then WHY DONT THEY PLAY IT ON MEDIA? That even makes us question that its just a part of propaganda. So we got to question them all, damn politicians.
i have an answer to that "how do we know".. you never saw a public outcry like this before cz the shit that happened right now has affected ppl like Tata.. they attacked at wrong places.. Taj and Trident.. these are the places where high end meets take place... common man doesn't visit these places.. we only see them from outside.. these are the places frequented by bigwigs of business world.. politicians thrive upon these ppl.. these are the ppl politicians have failed to protect this time.. hence this outcry.. hence, even after 7 days we are still seeing that the city hasn't forgotten and it's still angry.. the business world is angry.. they want new politicians to support them.. hence they are shouting.. and bcz big ppl are shouting alongwith the common man.. the shouts are loud and clear this time.. chew on this
Quite valid point!
I'm not adept at answering questions on national security or international politics. But from my experiences while travelling to different parts of the world tell me that no matter how big a hotel, the security measures for guests are not made keeping in mind that terrorists will be checking in.
To answer your question No.1 - I am yet to come across a hotel in any part of the world that checks the luggage of its guests before allowing them to check into the hotel. Of course, after this incident, people will be doing that, I guess.
As far as your doubts regarding the nationality of these terrorists goes, what do you have to say about a report in Pakistani media about Kasab's father owning up to the fact that it is his son in fact whose pictures have been splashed as the face or terror?
Also, Kasab (the terrorist who was arrested for the Mumbai attacks) has written a letter to the Pak High Commission in India asking them to provide him with legal aid to fight his case. Is that fabricated too?
I agree, the Pak govt may not have orchestrated these attacks, but if they allow terror outfits to thrive in their country, they will have to take the flak that comes not just from India but from the entire world. You do know that the terrorist who was released from an Indian jail in return for the lives of the passengers on board IC 814 which was hijacked is still living in Pakistan, as owned by the Pak govt itself?
No one wants war, Afaque. But we want justice. Neither innocent Indians nor innocent Pakis should be killed. But the perpetrators of crime should be brought to book.
"D"
When the post was written nothing was clear at all. Certain clues have come up only when media and some other bodies investigated in. Indian government did not tell ANY of the proofs to Pak government.
My point of writing the article was to condemn the blame game when nothing was clear, or if it WERE clear then nothing was shared with Pakistan government, and instead the Indian government alerted its forces on the borders and continued a media war threatening and bullying Pakistani government and blamed it to be the cause of all the bloody scene in Mumbai.
You tell me was it a wise way to settle the issue?
Wasn't it better to talk to Pakistani government?
Is it right for us to be played by bloody terrorist and bring the peace process to once again a ZERO position?
India still have not provided ANY proofs or even any clues to government this side. It is Pakistani government which is raiding and capturing certain Jihadi groups which India has JUST indicated. You can imagine what action it would have taken, had Indian government given some concrete proof to Pakis.
War is never a solution to any thing, this we have seen in past.
Afaque, let's not be naive and argue about whether our govt has given any "proofs" to the Pak govt or not. Because there is simply no way you or I can validate our points. You have only what you hear in the media to go by and I have only what I hear in the media to go by too.
The points that I have made are only about Kasab's origin. Can you deny a father's claim on his son? Why would Dawn (the paper that carried an interview of Kasab's father) do that?
And at the end of the day, it is important to focus on getting the guilty to the book instead of being tangled in petty politics.
Thats what I said that the things are getting clearer only now.
And now Pakistani government IS taking action against those elements. They have to do that because terrorists are no one's friends, neither India nor Pakistan. I can feel the pain that Indian people must have been feeling coz I have witnessed with my own eyes the same blood and mutilated bodies in my city.
But I only intended to stop the blame game and the pronouncements of going to war. It was a matter which could have been solved in a peaceful way. When the Paki government WAS ready to help out and assist and co-operate in any kind of investigation then there was no response at all from across the border.
Its not about politics, its about the 170 million people of Pakistan and 1.13 billion people of India. When its war then tanks and missiles don't see the poor civilians and ordinary citizens. I am an ordinary man and I have spoken for my kind and we do condemn war.
hello afaque,
hmm, its wierd and interesting to read of what the common man is saying accross the border. unfortunately, your post feels predictably pro-pakistan and anti-india with regard to the aftermath of 26/11. its also riddled with mis-information and half-backed facts, afaque. alas! u would probably say the same to a similar post written by an indian. such is the state of emotions of individuals on both sides, i suppose.
i think its would be safe to say that, the political leadership in both the countries is sadly lacking. we've failed in our preceeding intelligence, and paki govt has failed too, for obviously it is unable to eradicate extremist terrorists and their stronghold on its land. to the extent that its not even aware of what's brewing under its very nose. same goes for us. in the bargain innocents have died. hope God gives us all strength and mental capacity to fight against every element that's threatening humanity.
hey, also, thanks a ton for your comment on NOORIE...have replied to it on my page, thanks for visiting, and hope to see more of u.
Afaque, i read ur post n comments by ur blogger friends...very interesting to know that there is a mature society who has courage to discuss on such sensitive issues......hmmm..all i would say is that these terror attacks are not piece of entertainment for any of the nation....blaming politicians and media does not reflect strength but yes i believe that if anything can be done is from the courage and new outlook of the commom men of both the nations.....if we are sureabout our ideology and stand as a mass community against such inhuman activities then these small fry can not harm us......n peace will certainly prevail.
if only people would find easy outlets to their chaos within will everything at all see the light of peace and serenity.
what has been and what could be is just malice. now is same as it was 20 years ago, or even 50, maybe worsened because 'it is worked upon to be made better for the worse' but then again, do we ever work to make anything better? we have stopped being humans. we are just a bunch from a wandering crowd.. all going astray!
"Free Fallin'"
Yes it seems a lil pro-Pakistani coz I thought to some extent to clarify the position of Pakistan at that time. But it wasn't anit-Indian. It might be anti-Indian Media and anti-Paki Media.
My intent was to point out certain issues which Media had been abashing about.
Yes when this was written, the things were not clear that much. And I did not forced my views upon the public. I intended to criticize the way this issue had been taken by few on both sides. On Indian part, they were blaming on Paki govt directly right after a few hours of the tragedy and later vowed to wage a war on Pakistan. And on Paki side, they were showing the videos (which represented a fraction of society) about accepting the war so bravely. This is not bravery.
A proper action would have been a dialogue and information exchange.
Thanks for the comment though :)
"Dr. Vasu"
Of course we need to talk on such issues. But I am afraid that due to mis-information and deliberate propaganda on media on both sides has incited the general public so much that people who were friends before this tragedy, have become enemies. This has even happened on this very blogosphere.
There will always be difference in opinion and ideologies BUT we must talk like educated and enlightened human beings, just in order to solve our differences.
I am glad that you have found certain maturity and positivity in my writing and my friends here.
"Seher"
Yes all the 'what-ifs' are useless now. After the after effects of Mumbai tragedy, it is very depressing for those who have been working for bringing the people closer than before. We are standing again where we had started many years before.
Well, good to see someone who mentioned Mr Verma's attitude too....i also wrote a post as a reply to his baseless article...wud luv to hv a response frm u...
i wish the politicians and so called leadership of both the countries will return back to sanity once more...
link to the post
http://eishalslife.blogspot.com/2008/12/mr-bharat-vermas-misconceptions.html
Yes "E!$|-|@L" or more easy to put it "Eishal" :)
they have their own interests for which they use people's emotions and sentiments...
will see your now...
hey afaque,
hmm, i understand u wrote your post in question earlier than the facts actually came out. even i've posted stuff in the aftermath of mumbai-blasts....more to do with our internal reactions than commenting on indo-pak relations. it was utter amazement at what was unfolding after those fateful days....i could'nt actually get down on commenting on our relations! anyway, its a subject that's been trampled on by many, and no one really knows what in the freakin' hell are the govts. planning on doing.
i'm absolutely certain there are people exactly like us in pakistan too, who are urban, educated global citizens with sensitive minds. after all, weren't these two nations one before 1947? we have the same blood sired by the same land, afaque.
i think its high time the pressing issues between our countries get sorted through a serious dialogue. i'm referring to kashmir. only then will we see peace in our lifetimes. unfortunately all our polititions do is skirt the main issues. terrorist camps within pakistan certainly don't help.
I am glad I was finally able to explain what I wanted to... :)
yes it is the agenda of politicians only... werna people dont want all the bullshit... and for me if there is some linkage to terrorist on pakistani land who manipulated mumbai...that was only to divert pakistan's attention towards the terrorist camps in north-west... as the govt here has been too stringent on them since long now even though we wasted countless fauji and civilian innocent people while fighting against terrorists...
hmm, half-baked facts i understand that you've written this way before investigation was started but i suppose after the initial clues.
1. big hotels lacked the security equipment, i believe they realized now! even if they haven't by now... hmm
2. Indian security agencies had information about the attacks but improper communication between agencies cost us dearly.
3. world knows that LeT, JeM operate under various names and alqaida is responsible for spreading terrorism in pakistan!
4. it was based on the clues they found with the arrested terrorist from pakistan, kasab.
6. unfortunately for you, BJP hasn't gained much contrasting to what majority thought, its no more hindutva elections in India dude!
7. world knows pakistan is the epi-center for terrorism. US too knows that and we can sense the urgency in recent developments. pakistan govt. should know why it is so concerned about kashmir considering the wheat,sugar shortages which you've stated. is it more interested to work for its people or whether it should concentrate on kashmir.
and coming to your president Mr. Zardari, he changes his words twice before i can complete a post on my blog. recent flip-flops on his own decisions raises serious doubts about who's running the show in pakistan.
Star news has lost credibility ages ago and you're still watching it!
your post is anti-india and pro-pakistan. your post has failed to mention the terrorist activities in pakistan. there is literally no point in me arguing on this. i came across your post so i replied. nobody wants war. but its the way pakistan reacts depends on the outcome.
Cheers!
"Dolphin"
Already has said much about this issues here...
Pakistani govt IS doing too much against the terrorism even inside the country. If you just google the statistics and come to know how much of their are strikes and killing of terrorists and our own martyr soldiers and civilians then you wont comment that Pakistani govt must do something... You could have USED the word "MORE"... coz yes more is needed to be done but negating the total efforts is too callus...
And yes the post had been written when the things were not clear yet but it was an answer to Congress's baseless allegations which too were deliberated when the things were unclear...
hmm, afaque, i weigh your view that pakistan govt. is doing so much against terrorists. but sadly, great results matter at the end of the day. what all we've seen is too much promise and little deliverance & i'm not denying that indian govt. failed miserably in preventing the attacks when with prior information. it is high time our govts deliver results.
nice post, interesting to observe what people on your side think.
Cheers!
"Dolphin"
Pakistani govt might not be delivering much but what about Indian govt? Interpol is a neutral and international agency and just yesterday they said that they haven't been given any clues and any proofs which are necessary for cracking down the claimed terrorists... So I guess nobody's doing much there as well...
Thanks for your comments though :)
"Dolphin"
Pakistani govt might not be delivering much but what about Indian govt? Interpol is a neutral and international agency and just yesterday they said that they haven't been given any clues and any proofs which are necessary for cracking down the claimed terrorists... So I guess nobody's doing much there as well...
Thanks for your comments though :)
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Sorry for offtopic
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